Kay: So hello and welcome to this episode of the Now...Why? podcast. This is an opportunity and the space to hear from our print coaches and all the wonderful work that they do. And it's also an opportunity for those of you that have never heard of print before, to hear about all the wonderful benefits that the motivational tool brings.

Today, in the hot seat I am with Mark Setterfield. Mark is the Global Learning and Development Manager at Tronox, and this is where he works with leaders across the business to build self-awareness, to strengthen capability, and to help teams work together much more effectively.

Today, he is passionate about using profiling tools in practical human ways, not as labels, but as a way to build understanding, reduce friction, and help people do their best work together.

So thank you so much for joining us today. I'm fascinated to hear about all the wonderful things that you do with PRINT® . I love your commentary about feeling like a square peg in a round hole.

So I am going to ask you a little bit about that, but I'm going to kick off by asking you the question that I ask all of our PRINT® coaches.

Tell me about the first time that you encountered PRINT® and any 'aha' moments that you had as a result of that?

Mark: Gosh, it's so long ago. I think it was 2018. So big moments were, as with many people, I think I was looking for something else. I can't even remember which PRINT® profile I was looking for, so I was a bit surprised when I saw my profile.

And then kind of working backwards from there, saying, is that right? Does it make sense to me? And really trying to get into, you know, is that right as well. And big moments were, I think, that square peg in a round whole thing really, because as I looked around in the room of other people in a manufacturing environment, they were kind of talking about different profiles and it was very, you know, detail orientated and that kind of stuff.

Whereas mine being a PRINT® for to be special and find meaning in life really resonated with me. My background of art college as you did as well. And then the moment was, oh, okay, this is me and this is who I'm always going to be. It's probably who I've always been since I was a teenager, and I've got a meaningful contribution to make.

Be in Best Self. I don't need to pretend to be, you know, something else. I don't need to pretend to be a scientist or an engineer or anything like that. I've got a really valid contribution to make.

Kay: Wonderful. And yeah, and I know the first time that me and you met, which was, you know, way back when, and it is those kind of things that you have in connection with one another.

And obviously, although, you know, I did go to art college a lot earlier than what you did, because when we talked about, I was like in the 80s, obviously, clearly you was in the, in the, in the 90s. So I think it's quite interesting, isn't it, that, you know, to find purpose and meaning in that kind of creative outlook and being able to pump that into people development.

So do you think that your Unconscious Motivators attracted you towards the people development arena from a manufacturing point of view?

Mark: Absolutely. Yeah, and like many people, I did have quite a, I don't know, like a weaving road in my career. I've yet to meet many people in HR who did an HR degree and always wanted to be an HR manager or something.

So I did start at Heart College in 1989 actually. But thanks very much for thinking it was later and then moved into. I actually kind of lost the way a little bit and dropped out of art college and then being brought up in a in a kind of food manufacturing area, then just went into food manufacturing as a job to tide me over as things then often work out.

Then the weeks go by, the months go by, in the years go by. So I found myself in manufacturing and moving into my first leadership roles in supervision, health and safety, all of those kind of things. So I kind of find myself in manufacturing and found that I was not too bad at it. I quite liked the process side of things, but what I kept coming back to in terms of fascination was the people really thinking about that from a manufacturing perspective.

Doesn't matter how good your processes are or your technology is, people can make it or they can break it as well. And from a safety perspective as well, there's obviously a lot of work from a psychological perspective about psychological safety and the need for people to really contribute to that safety culture. So when I moved out of manufacturing and went into consulting and teaching, it just felt quite natural to me.

It was scary and it was out of my my comfort zone. But I found that I really enjoyed learning, making some mistakes along the way and then within trucks when I came back into really, you know, heavy manufacturing and I got the opportunity to move into learning and development. I really felt that I was coming home.

It's fascinating, isn't it?

I don't think I've ever spoken to any learning and development practitioner or facilitator or coach who's had that at the very beginning of their career, saying, that's what I want to do. It's almost like, I don't know, like a calling that as an unconscious motivator and as a thing that motivates and drives you. You are naturally attracted to and and find your place and end up in that, you know, in that space.

Kay: I think I think it's I think it's quite intriguing really. And you know, and I obviously know what your profile is. So all the things that you're talking about absolutely ticks the boxes, doesn't it. For your, for you, for your PRINT® profile. So I know that you've used PRINT® for many years anyway and then became accredited quite a few years ago now. So I'm really intrigued around now the fact that you are accredited. You have that in-house. You've obviously got a, you know, a wonderful group of people that are also accredited and deliver PRINT® for your wonderful teams and departments across OCS. Can you give us a little bit of a share around how you use that and what and what you do with it, and how PRINT® you know, makes the difference for you as an organization?

Mark: Absolutely. I was thinking about this very hard and making some notes this morning and trying to kind of trace back to where it all started, and that's how I'll answer. I think that just because I think it's been very organic and it's been incredibly impactful, but it started over ten years ago now at the UK sites where the leadership team there were really looking for something to bring them together as a team and to understand them selves and each other a bit better.

They used PRINT® and they found it very, very helpful. And then a kind of organic process began there where because we've used all sorts of profiling tools in the past and they have been helpful as well. But I would say the difference would PRINT® that I saw is then that they really got it. They found that it was really practical.

And then what happens is people say, I need this for my teams as well. So then it really started to cascade through the business and over time then it just became, I mean, not even deliberately. I don't think it just became the expectation because it was so helpful. That's what I saw. And then of course, then as new people come in and then people move away, particularly in the global business, and they move perhaps to different regions or moving to global roles, then it kind of spread out from there.

So we certainly use it with a variety of teams. I've used it really successfully with some of the regional management teams as well who really, really enjoyed. They enjoyed how it connects with our values, which is about seeing people as people, and it allowed them to understand each other a little bit better, to use neutral language, perhaps when things were getting a bit heated or, you know, stressful at that level as well, they found it really, really helpful.

In particular, I think we have a Women in Leadership program that has been running for, gosh, maybe about 6 or 7 years now. That's been really successful. And in the past, to be honest with you, we used to use an executive online kind of platform that was very expensive. It's very good. But as we needed to make sure we got the maximum value out of that, then we brought PRINT® into that.

So for our high potential women across the world, and what's really interesting is they actually preferred that they actually prefer pPRINT®. So we run a cohort and a colleague, Sandi, runs a cohort of about 12 to 20 every year. And I would say almost to every person there, every one of the ladies say they really enjoy the insights that it gives them.

They really like the coaching afterwards.

And then of course, that whole organic process continues again, because then if they're leaders, they'll be saying, can you do it for my team as well?

So what do you what do you think? I mean, I do think that's really interesting. The fact that it's it's a tool that they really enjoy doing.

They find that, you know, a lot of benefit from it. What do you think might be some of the differentiators that that print brings into a program that sounds like, you know, it's very well established and you've been running it for, you know, quite a few years now. What do you what do you think it does that's different?

Mark: Good question. I would say it's a really good blend of like simplicity because as human beings we're all unique and we're quite complex and complicated and that kind of stuff. But I would say what I hear across all the full range of PRINT® profiles, whether they be sort of detail orientated or people like me who are more kind of fillets, is that they really resonate with and welcome that, the doors that it unlocks in terms of understanding themselves in a really simple, simplified and transferable and very, very useful way.

And that's a really great basis then, isn't it? Really. So I think it can be overwhelming for a lot of people in terms of self-awareness and building emotional intelligence. It's just really simple, I think. And that's the feedback that I get. And then it it's very easy with a lot of hard work. If that doesn't quite make sense, does it?

But it's it's easy if you put the work in their day in and day out to see the real benefits from that, particularly for, I think for those ladies on the Women in Leadership, they say that it's really, really helpful for them as leaders as well.

Kay: What's the what's the kind of mix of females in those leadership positions? Mark across across your organization? Is it quite high?

Yeah, yeah. And it would be a mix of fairly fairly senior and mid range managers, all people leaders in terms of potential really really inspiring. But in terms of locations and ages and demographics, it's as as widely spread as it could be really. So we don't really it's not as if we're really focusing on young talent or anything.

It's just it's a dedicated program for high potential female female leaders in the business. And it's it's literally, you know, South Africa, Asia, Australia, the Americas, all of Europe, South Africa, Middle East. It's the it's the the whole gamut. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the Women in Leadership program sounds incredible. And but I'd also love to know I know that you've done an awful lot more work beyond discovery with lots of different teams and individuals.

Kay: Can you share anything with us that any other things that you've done with PRINT®, kind of beyond that discovery phase?

Mark: I would summarize it, I think, as saying that PRINT® is very, very adaptable and flexible, isn't it, to a lot of situations. And I really like, you know, about, you know, driving effective teamwork and communications and helping teams through change.

So I really appreciate and find that helpful that that's kind of there. And you can take that off the shelf. What I find is then is then my job really as a coach to those leaders and to those teams is to really listen. I mean, you know, all this, this is what you do. But I think by really listening to what their situation is and what they're trying to achieve and maybe unpick some of the challenges that they've got at the moment, what I find is that it's very rarely a kind of cookie cutter type team and a cookie cutter type solution.

So what I find is that from those conversations quite often, then it's really important then to say, okay, so what what is it that you want to achieve and to and to get that to be time bound and realistic as well. Because often the discovery sessions or whatever team session we're doing will be four hours maximum. So I think then listening to that and being really clear and getting the leader behind that and getting the team behind, that helps us to tailor.

And of course, in a business like ours, with about 6000 people and and a wide range of different functions of teams as well, you get some really unique challenges and some really unique teams in there and some really unique profiles as well, which is another big factor in there. Who are you dealing with? Are you dealing with a real sort of emphasis on data and analytics, or is it a very people orientated team?

So long and rambling answer, but I would say then tailoring that based on helping them to be successful, we do all kinds of things in terms of helping them get through change, sometimes a bit of friction or some communication issues as well, sometimes bringing two teams together as well to try and break down some of their silos. We do some individual work with people, which doesn't.

I mean, more often than not, it's not a kind of negative situation. It's not punitive. Absolutely never. But quite often it's more a conversation about how can you work with this person to make them even more effective and even more productive. So

Kay: It sounds very much like there's lots of people that have been PRINT®-ed. What types of feedback have you got from, you know, that that wide ranging, whether it's been, you know, a kind of a measurement or something that's been anecdotal? I know obviously you've you've talked about the Women in Leadership piece, but what are the feedback have you got from some of those people that maybe it's been a 1 -to-1 and it's been a coaching session with them and up to doing something like a high performing team or communication?

Mark: Yeah. Again very wide. Well, not wide ranging I would say.

So reflecting now we we have PRINT®-ed upwards of about 700 people I think, across those over ten years. So it's really big. And I've done a bit of analysis on that as well, which is really interesting. I'll share with you another time. But so I would say. Overwhelmingly very positive and lots and lots of insights. And I would say that that's what you get from the whole range of, of print types, if you see what I mean. From all of those unconscious motivators, one stands out just because it was recent as well. I would think because it was such a good learning for me, and I was coaching 1-to-1.

And a lot of that that I do is in this kind of virtual space as well, just because of the global nature. But the conversation that I was having with this person, they, they were very resistant to it, but I did know them before as well. So what I really appreciated was that they were openly resistant in a in a very non-threatening way.

They were just very factual about it. And so I thought, okay, that's really helpful, actually, to understand where it is that you're coming from and exploring that and saying, okay, and they've got quite a long career and just a little bit older than me. And I said, have you used any profile in tools in the past? And they said, oh yeah, this one, that one, the other one.

Did you find it useful? I said, and they said it was okay, but nothing that really stuck with me. It was kind of the age old. It's in my drawer somewhere or on a shelf gathering dust. It was all right. So. Okay. All right, well, let's go through it anyway. And, we had I think we scheduled about 90 minutes to 2 hours for the debrief.

We took about 2.5 hours in the end because we got into such a really good conversation. So so the feedback from that. So that's the initial feedback, isn't it? Why is this different to anything else? Nothing's really kind of been earth shattering for me or any light bulb moments in the past. You can really work with that.

Okay, I think aren't you? And then really listen and reassure. And what I found myself saying in terms of that feedback was really, well, look, all of this is an invitation and it's really a choice. I found it enormously useful and I found it incredibly useful in my in my personal life and in my professional life. So every aspect as a husband, as a father or as a leader, as a colleague, you name it, I find it really useful and continue to.

That's all I could really say to this person and say, just go with me on it. Keep on pushing back, keep on asking questions, keep on challenging. And that was probably one of the most challenging debriefs I'd done, but one of the most rewarding, because by the end of it and from subsequent conversations, there was some real light bulb moments for that person, genuinely.

So so that one really sticks out, I think because it was such a journey of great feedback all the way through. So this person was a really effective straight communicator. You can probably guess what kind of profile they were.

I could have a good guess. Yes, indeed. Yeah, exactly. And and then it was just so many light bulb moments from there.

So for me, it was it was enormously rewarding as a coach because I learned so much from it as well. And it stopped me from kind of telling and really get into that listening modes and invitation rather than, you know, I'm going to fix you or whatever.

Yeah, but really, how would I summarize it to know what my role is and what my style is?

A bit better to allow me to get into my best self space when I'm coaching and then get out of the way.

Really? That is that's really interesting, isn't it? You know, get, you know, move out of the way. Let that person, that person is, you know, fully competent at being able to explore that for themselves. And I think it's I think that's that for me.

Kay: That's a great top tip actually, because sometimes we can let our own Unconscious Motivators, our own stories get in the way. Can't we, of supporting other people. I liked your point earlier on when you said, you know, it's not my job to fix it, but actually from your profile, that's a very natural, safe thing and motivating thing for you to do, isn't it?

But being able to suspend some of that stuff I think can be, you know, can can be really tricky. Really?

Absolutely. Yeah. And you reflect that back as well that, that concept and maybe it's my profile as well that I use that word fix as well. It's very negative.

And it's because that's implying you're broken right. So that's really interesting.

Let's not say that. But yeah. No I'm in awe of of anybody who's in the coaching space at whatever level. I think that everybody's on the journey and I'm certainly on a journey. I feel very, very lucky that I'm in the learning and development space. And I truly believe that that's absolutely where a belong. And that really helped me with my profile because and it really makes sense because I spend every day, you know, learning and development is my trade, if you like.

But it's just naturally where I am in terms of, excuse me, I, I find myself wanting to and actually learning on a daily basis. So, you know, that's that's kind of who I am. So to thinking about all of the wonderful coaches out there, whether they're starting out or they're really over here as the real experts, we're all on a journey and we're all making our own mistakes, and we're having our own successes.

And and I think as long as we can keep on having the conversation, working on ourselves and learning from each other, then we're going to ultimately be more helpful to other people and to organizations. That's that's what our job is, I think, wonderful. And that leads me very nicely onto that question that I ask all of our coaches.

So, you know, one of the one of the main reasons of running the podcast is to enable our wonderful coaches to share their best practice and golden nuggets and pearls of wisdom with others. So if I was to pose the question to you, what will be the one thing that you would love to share with all the print coaches that they that you think might be useful or something that they can learn from you?

What would that be?

I love that question, and it took me so long to to think around that. And then I gave up and I got frustrated. And then and then something came to me anyway. So hopefully it'll be helpful because this is truly something that just kind of developed. So what I always find myself doing, I have an analogy that I'm told is quite helpful to people.

I find it useful as well. So when you think about it, you share a link with somebody and then they go through the survey and they know then through the coaching and the prep that you do before that. It's an absolutely unique survey, isn't it, because it's a dynamic survey and it takes over 750 questions. And from your initial questions, then it goes off on a journey, doesn't it.

And it's it can feel like it's double checking you sometimes, but it's just saying how reliable and repeatable is this before it lands on who you are. So that's the first thing that I say that's unique, right? That's a fact. Then the next bit is, let's say just at random. Let's say you're a 1-6 or something and I'm talking to somebody.

You're one six.

That's a fact as well. Will there be other one sixes in the world. Absolutely. Will they have exactly the same report as you? Absolutely they will. Does that mean that they're exactly the same as you? Absolutely not. Right. So I think to step through it in that logical way helps set it up. And then what I say is, look, if it's helpful, just imagine.

Just imagine that instead of a report being generated that I've got some kind of magic 3D printer. And what it does is based on your answers, it's going to make a little statue. And then we come together for the debrief, and I walk into the room and let's say we're ten meters away from each other. And as I walk through the room, hike, I've got your report.

Then from a distance you might look at it and go, oh, wow, that really looks like me. But then as I walk closer and closer, then you'll notice the differences, because then you might say, that bits not quite right. That bit used to be me, but it's not now and that kind of thing. Right. And I think that's absolutely fine.

So you have this report. It's specific and correct, but it's kind of general. So what I say is okay, so what are you going to do with the statue. So you're going to take a chisel and hammer and you're going to take those bits off it just to hone that and really, really hone in on what it is to be you.

Is that one six in that example? But what isn't you and what used to be you. And that's what we do, isn't it? On page five and six, when we say, really look at those things that you resonate with and cross out those things that you don't resonate with. So that's my nugget of wisdom. I don't know if it's helpful, but I think the feedback is that people kind of get that.

It makes sense. And and that's something that you can work with. Then particularly I would say if you've got some misunderstanding and some resistance to it because it's a valid point, isn't it? Well, I'm A16016 as well. Does that mean we're the same. So that's helpful just to kind of break down what it is and what it is.

And I find I love that imagery, that imagery around actually carving something out and actually sculpting something. And you know, as you well know, we talk about the fact that, you know, it doesn't put you in a it's not a pigeonhole, it's not a box so that you can't spread your wings and fly and grow and develop. It's actually there to support you, celebrate who you are, but also give you the opportunity to be the best version that you can possibly be.

So I love that that imagery of sculpting yourself and being able to kind of hone all those wonderful best self things and maybe chop off some of those things that maybe are your are your, your shadow behavior. So it's it's fascinating. And I think, you know, one of the things for us is also about building that community. So if any of our listeners, if any of our coaches are out there and would like to get in touch with you or kind of tap into your brain power or your experience, what would be the best way of someone to kind of get hold of Mark or drop you a line?

What would you say for that? I would say definitely reach out on LinkedIn, as is the way nowadays. Certainly. I mean, if it was okay with you. I mean, to put an inquiry through you and

yeah, of course you could get in touch with me from there. So yeah, do tend to be fairly active on LinkedIn. I would probably what they call a stalker.

I don't post so much to much there, but I tend to read a lot of stuff with with interest and like to make new connections. I tend to like, make I want to make connections with people I actually know. So I'm not one of those people who would just kind of connect with everybody. I think that loses its value.

So yeah, drop me a line on LinkedIn. I'd be very happy to have a conversation and take it from there.

Kay: Yeah. Brilliant. So you've heard it. If you want to drop it, drop him, drop him a little note. And yeah, make those connections from a from a print point of view. So one of the things I ask all of our guests is around your own motivators and describing your motivation.

You've already given us a beautiful metaphor around the statue. So my question to you, Mark, is if you were to describe your Unconscious Motivators in a way that's artistic and creative and imaginative, how would you describe them moving away from that print? Major minor, what would you say about about yourself?

Yeah. Now this is one then. So I as part of my profile, I would say ironically then I've gone around and around and around on that and thinking how I could do that in really creative way.

I would just put it simply, I think that that I expressive person who is on a journey to learn about everything and ultimately find the meaning in life, in everything. I find a great joy within that. I'd like to make a contribution and make sure that people are safe and make sure that I'm safe. So that's me at my best.

I bring empathy, creativity, and high standards together. That's the simple thing. Of course, there is the other side to that as well. So from a shadow perspective, I can move into a more intense and a self-critical and a critical of others space as well. And you've asked for a simple explanation, but I'm not sure I'm able to give it to you.

Okay. But yeah, creative and building safety for people.

Wonderful. I would describe you as that wonderful toolkit, that wonderful drum kit behind you.

Sorry. And are they congas or bongos behind you as well?

Got some bongos there. And I've got some, some other wonderful drums as well. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was staring me in the face. Is that, is that, is that a passion for you, Mark playing the drums.

Yeah. It's been a passion since I was an early teenager. And you know what? After my kind of ill thought out answer, I think you're absolutely right. Because I think the percussion and playing drums and playing in a band is a really, really good metaphor, actually. Now I think about it because it is that expressive, artistic freedom that can come with the drums, and I like jazz and all of that freedom and expression, but I really enjoy the order as well.

So this is me thinking on my feet as well. But that order and the rhythm, there's a real sweet spot between actually, you know, playing the notes straight and putting them straight onto the beat. And all of the magic actually comes just by moving it in front of the beat or just behind the beat. So that's a really, really good metaphor.

Now, you've helped me with that case. So I think it's it's playing the drums but not playing them too straight, enjoying yourself and having a bit of freedom as well. So that's safety. Yeah.

Kay: Yeah. I'm not musical by any stretch of the imagination, but drummers do fascinate me because of everything that you've just said there around. The fact of, you know, how they can be played in so many different ways, and that real creative piece and how that can be the absolute backbone to, you know, to a to a band.

Which leads me on to my very final question, which is about, you know, motivation. And we have a little playlist. So all of my guests, I ask, you know, on that playlist, what would you add to it? That is a motivational song that you that is your go to when you want a little pick me up, when you want to kind of drive forward when you want that real injection of energy.

Our playlist is called Now That's What I call My Why. If anybody out there is wondering what that playlist is called. So Mark, for you as a drummer, what might you say will be on that playlist for us?

Well, I would say again, I went round and round and looked at my playlists and thought about it, but the first thing I thought of was the one that I went back to, and I think it is perfect as well.

So I enjoy music enormously, as you can see, and have really eclectic tastes. But I would come back to Curtis Mayfield, move on up because it's so motivational. It's got percussion all over it. I think it's about seven minutes long. It's so funky and it's just it's a real toe tapper and such a positive message. Move on up mazing.

Kay: Wonderful. Well we will add that to our playlist. And thank you so much for sharing that with us. Thanks for sharing your percussion metaphor, I love that. I'm certainly going to add that to my to my next workshop. I think talking about, you know, if you were a drum kit, what would you be and what what would be in it I think.

Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing with us today and spending some time sharing your expertise and your kind of insider knowledge of, you know, delivering print across lots of different teams and in your organization. And yeah, and for, you know, really flying the flag for print. So thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

It's my pleasure. Thanks very much I appreciate it.