Kay: Hello everyone, and welcome to Now...Why? This is a space where I get to chat to PRINT® accredited coaches about all things PRINT® its incredible impact and the variety of application. You're probably wondering who I am. Well, my name is Kay Vessey and amongst other things, I'm a PRINT® champion. I absolutely love this tool. If you're familiar with PRINT®, that's fabulous. If you're not, you're probably wondering or really curious about what it is and how it works.

So, in a nutshell, PRINT® is a model of human motivation. It helps us to understand how we act, react, and interact with one another. What gets us firing on all cylinders, making us feel motivated, productive, resourceful. You know the things that get you out of bed in the morning. But most importantly, it also helps us to understand what does quite the opposite.

So you're probably wondering, why am I a PRINT® champion? Well, it creates incredible insight and self-awareness, and it provides a powerful lens for us to understand, appreciate, and empathize with each other. PRINT® is a catalyst to uncover our why and really understand what it means to be human.

As a learning and development professional. PRINT® is absolutely my Swiss Army knife. It's my go to for people development. So my aim for the Now...Why? podcast is to provide a continuous learning loop of sharing, exploration and inspiration for everyone who listens in. So where do I start with something as big as this? Well, I thought I'd start at the beginning of our journey with PRINT®.

So in this episode, I've got Helen Bissett in the PRINT® seat. Helen or H, as she's more usually known, is one of the founding directors of H&H, the leading internal communication and employee engagement agency. Back in 2015, H brought PRINT® to the UK. Now what I want to find out is why. So, H welcome today. Thank you so much for joining us.

H: Hello

Kay: Welcome to Now...Why? the podcast that's all about PRINT®. And thanks for sitting in the PRINT® seat today. So my first question to you today is tell me about the first time you encountered PRINT®?

H: To give you a sense of that I need to go a bit further back then my first discovery of PRINT®. I need to go back to the…Yeah, I won't go back to the very beginning, but I'll go back to the beginning. And that was when I left the corporate environment. And, I ensconced myself in personal development and because I was looking for a path forward. And I was, I think, like many coaches, I started my coaching career, coaching myself. And so I read all of the coaching books that were out there and there wasn't that many really, because in 2000, coaching was only just becoming a thing. And, I also did loads profiles, and I think that after more and more profiles I realized that they were all kind of telling me the same thing. They were all telling me that, you know, no matter what, if it was a color or a number or a letter or, you know, whatever, they're all basically saying the same thing about me.

And before I did the PRINT® profile, I hadn't actually occurred to me that I hadn't asked myself why. I didn't even know, it didn’t come to me that, well, I was fine. And because I thought, well, I got used to this echo chamber of doing a profile and it would tell me the same thing. And I go ok, yeah. So I'm continually confirming that this is who I am. But I hadn't really stopped to ask myself why.

And then about 19, about 2015, it was actually it was a fellow coach, she had experienced PRINT® when she'd been in the USA. And she had become accredited in it, and she introduced it to me and well. Bam! You know, the piece I didn't think was missing. I always have now got this piece. And for me, you know, there's been very few moments in my life where I've had a Bam! moment. You know, I've had lots of. Oh, that's interesting or. Oh, that's not that's, you know, I'm going to do something with that or that, you know, is taking me a step forward. But this was less of a rumble. It wasn't really a rumble. It was more of a it was more of a quake. You know, if I was if I was describing it that way, it was a tectonic shift. To understand why I do what I do. So they opened up all sorts of possibilities to me at that point.

And I think that, to understand that I kind of knew about I did what why am I the one that always used to stand forward to do things, you know, when everybody else has taken a step back, even though I've got 45 things already on the go? You know why am I, why is it like a compulsion that I can't control even though I get home and go what were you thinking? You’ve got enough things on. You know why? Why do people that, come across to me or why or I would, my, you know, my voice say they have been lacklustre or hesitant, you know, why would that drive me crazy? You know, why can I know all that that, why can’t I rest ever? Why can't I rest ever? You know, going on holiday is stressful to me. You know, as I say, I actually genuinely don't look forward to holidays because normal people stress the whole time thinking it's supposed to be doing nothing, you know, and, and I kind of I just got used to living like that, you know, and then all of a sudden, I had this beautiful insight. That kind of cracked open something to me, the, you know, to me it was the difference that made the difference. Now I could control it. Now I know what's going on. I've got a methodology to be able to go, alright. Okay. That's okay. That's fine. Yeah. Now I understand what unconscious motivators is inside me are driving this behavior, I’ve got half a chance to get hold of them and control them. That was it really. That was really, the moment. It was a Bam! moment for sure.

Kay: It's such an interesting question though, asking why isn't it? Because on one hand, it's very easy to become quite defensive in asking in and answering a why question. Why do you do this? Why do you do that? Why do you do the other? But actually, from your point of view, of really using it from a self-reflection perspective and thinking about, well, like you said, you know, why can't I rest? You know, what's going on for me that prevents me or holds me back or, you know, why do I do it in this way? So what is a thing that pushes me forward in taking on lots of new things, when actually I've got a million things that I'm already kind of kind of spinning.

And I think it's, you know, all those are the tools are really insightful, incredible. But PRINT® absolutely does that very deep dive, doesn't it, into your why. And so therefore answers lots of questions that you might even not realize needed answering.

H: You're right. And you know what it was like, my soul was being bared. You know, I know that sounds a bit highbrow and you know. But it was because I think we have a tendency to constantly look at the things that we love about ourselves, and we know about ourselves. You know and we can conveniently kind of push aside. But see, when I saw that list of Shadow Behaviours, by God, you know, I did I had a right good look at them and I thought, oh, right. Okay. You know, so it was, it gave me a real balance. And, and it also gave me, an opportunity to say, do I want to behave in that way? Do I want those, do I want them in my life, or can I find a better way of making things happen? And, and I think, as I say, I think PRINT® put into words things that I've kind of sensed about myself or I kind of knew what was happening. I never quite understood why. And, and so, so yeah, give me a new language, new methodology, a new way of thinking.

Kay : So that started to reveal things for you.

H: As I say, you know, I've done I'd been 15 years doing personal development, so I knew, but it just gave me that missing piece of the jigsaw of the why am I doing that? And I think that makes all the difference.

Kay: So that's really insightful around the first time that you encountered PRINT® and what it meant to you. What I'm really interested in is what's the psychometric profiling tool got to do with an IC agency?

H: Oh yeah. Interesting. Well, I guess the long and the short of it, I’ll just say everything. It's got everything to do with an IC agency and internal communications agency. Although we call ourselves that, we're actually a collective of real curious minds. And we just happened to be in the, in the business of internal communications.

But you think about it, communication, it doesn't happen…It isn't just about what you say or how you say it. It's the response you get after you’ve said it. And I think that’s shaped by the people who are communicating and the people who are communicating with each other, and then that’s shaped by their personalities and their working styles and the way that they prefer to communicate and all of that stuff. And I think that, think gives us a shortcut understanding into that. And it gives us a language that we can use to understand all these different people, all these different personalities, all these different types that we need to communicate with, and not just on the surface of it, but really getting underneath how people need communication to be led for them. And probably know more about that than the individual themselves, because by the very nature if they haven’t done PRINT®, they won’t know their unconscious motivators. They just know that they're responding in a positive way to the way that we're communicating with them.

And I think that it's not just a profiling into, I really, really I think it's so much more than that. I think it's a fantastic way for people, for leaders to become more conscious about how the leading. It helps with culture change and, as well as better communication, which is absolutely everything to do with what an internal communications and employee engagement is all about.

Kay: So it's kind of like the foundational bedrock, isn't it? Of, you know, how we are as humans and, you know, and how we interact with one another, act, react with one another and internal communications is kind of like the, the output. But why we do what we do, how we're motivated, how we feel productive, how we connect is, you know, that kind of bottom line isn’t really.

H: Absolutely, I think you probably said that more concisely than I did. Yes but absolutely.

Kay: It's just really interesting to hear you talk about that depth of that origin for you and what it meant for you and how important that was to then kind of share it with many others. Because I think that's the key thing, isn't it? It's okay having that information for yourself, but actually that real self-awareness and understanding and appreciation of other people is what really does push us forward. That creates teams and individuals that are productive, motivated, resourceful, and be able to bring all of that good stuff to the situations that they're kind of, you know, operating in.

H: Yeah.

Kay: You've talked a little bit about, you know, that first time that you encountered PRINT®, that Bam! moment, but what I'm really interested in is what's the most powerful outcome that you've had through using PRINT® for you personally?

H: I think it was a shift. It was a shift from making assumptions about myself to actually understanding myself. I think it's that shift that was the biggest outcome. The one that I think had the biggest impact on me personally. Not just myself personally, but the way that I interacted with others. And the way that I do business and the way that I think about communication, it changed all of that. I think it was because PRINT® gives a language. We don't always have to talk about the things that, things are normally going unsaid, you know, so things like what triggers us, what annoys us. You know, what brings our Shadow Behaviors. What keeps us in best self. We were very cautious around those sorts of conversations, I think as a team, because, you know, it's difficult to bare your soul in that way. You have to be quite vulnerable, really. And you're not quite sure how someone is going to respond to that. So I believe, I think that having this shared language where you can say to someone, oh I’ve this notice have triggered you there, what have I done? You know, or or I've just noticed that, you know, you've responded in a way that I didn't expect you to. How can I can I do that better in the future? It gives you this level playing field of language that you can really connect with someone and I think moves you beyond assumptions. Don't assume because someone's can't do won't do that, that they're not interested, you know. That's one of the things that, you know, it taught me. It just means that they need to have a lot more time to reflect about it and to think about it before they take action.

So, I think that's probably the biggest outcome is to move me away from making assumptions about myself, making assumptions about others. And, really moving it through into understanding why someone's behaving the way they're behaving.

Kay: I think you touched on something really important there. I've obviously done hundreds and hundreds of profiles over the past ten years of being accredited. And I think one of the things that people find astounding is actually seeing it written in black and white.

H: Yeah.

Kay: It is that aha moment of I felt this or I knew this about myself, but actually seeing it written in words kind of cements all that wonderful stuff that I do and bring and all the things that actually I could do with shifting and changing or making a difference.

So I think, you know, that language piece is really important and it does help to create that psychological safety. It helps us to create that environment to have these conversations with one another and be proud of who we are and be celebratory, as well as recognizing how we can grow and shift and develop.

H: So important, yeah, that you feel, that you realize it also gives you this this sense that you know you're not broken. Just different. Just wired in a different way. And I I think it’s incredible that you have the shortcut into understanding how someone else is wired. And you know, if there's any, any if you button up against each other, that’s not necessarily personality. You know, it could be. But it might not be. It could actually be that you just, your unconscious motivators are seeking something different in that moment, and you've got the language to explore that. So there should be no reason for you not to be able to get on with anybody at all. You know, that you come across in your professional and personal life.

Kay: So you've probably already started to answer my next question. But I'm going to pose it anyway because you might have a little bit more to add. What do you think makes PRINT® stand apart from other tried and tested people development tools?

H: I think I did mention and I did allude to it earlier, that I love a good profiler who doesn't, you know, it's wonderfully illuminating. But as I say, it felt like they were an echo chamber of just continually reinforcing what I already knew about myself. And I think that the compelling difference for PRINT® is getting underneath that, getting behind it, getting in behind the personality traits and behaviour, you know, getting into it goes underneath that surface to find out what's driving the behaviours. And I think that that is…. I've never…Since I did PRINT® in 2015, and I've done other since then, they've never got close to that illuminating. They've never illuminated anywhere near to that level of understanding of myself and why I do what I do. And, and I think, you know, I said this before, it kind of bares your soul, it's like, whoa. Oh, yeah, that's actually quite right. I was quite right about me. Okay. That's great.

I think one of the key thing is also I mean, like you said one, I think the why is is the compelling difference. I think what's really important about that, is the way that PRINT® does that it makes it actionable. Because it shows you, it demonstrates the behaviors and actions. Because when you know what's driving you, and what's driving the people around you, you can actually do something that. You know, if you're told that somebody you know is a leader, I mean, what do you do with that? But if you're told that somebody is driven by the need to succeed or driven by the need for security or driven by the need for whatever, you can do something with that. You can take action on it.

And I think it helps you lead, I think it helps you coach. I think it helps you collaborate and communicate more effectively with others. And because for me, it's not about boxing people and it's the opposite of that. It's almost, you know, like when you do other profiling tools, it's kind of like what colour were you, what box were you in? I think it's actually the opposite of that. It opens up, it expands opportunity and awareness for you to have more and better relationships with each other. And I think that, that's what really makes it different is this ability to action it. We don't label people we liberate them to be able to understand their own behaviours and others. And shortcut our whole process that could take years and you can find out within minutes.

Kay: I love that, you know, liberating people. You know, who wouldn't want to be liberated. So it leads me on to, you've talked about, you know, leaders already, and I know you're very passionate about conscious leadership. I'm really intrigued around how you think that PRINT® can potentially support leaders to show up in their best self.

H: You know, it's interesting the clues almost in the name conscious leadership, isn't it? In order for you to be conscious as a leader, you need to… you need to have as much awareness as you can about who you are. Because I don't believe that you can lead others unless you, you know, you have to know how to lead yourself and what you're about first before you can lead others.

So for me, conscious leadership really is about kind of three things really, I suppose awareness, responsibility and choice. Making two choices in any moment, taking responsibility for your actions and the responses for others that others are taking, and being really aware of yourself. And I think that PRINT®, kind of gives you an understanding of who you are at your best, but it also gives you understanding of when you’re not at your best, you know. So, and what derails you into the sorts of Shadow Behaviours that just will not get the best out of others. They just won't.

And I think, over the years, you know, I understand this, it has made me a better leader. And I’m not going to say I’m being perfect. I'm not perfect. By God. Sometimes it sneaks up and gets me, you know, and some of my Shadow Behaviours, you know, they would make your toes curl, you know. If you were to see them written down, in terms of, you know, when, I don't know, I've been bolshie, aggressive, pushy, demanding all these things that can happen. And I'm not saying that I've stopped it from happening but I’ve certainly dampened it down, and I and I can find it quicker.

So I know when I'm into, so when it happens and I'm like, right, that’s it, I’m triggered. And I know I can make a choice in that moment of what to do. I can either continue down the route and go right, no and go into my controlling self and …. Or I can take a step back and go, right, it was only a trigger. To get the best out of this situation, what can you do now? And I think that's why PRINT® is so important to me and my desire to be the best leader that I can be because it gives me that level of consciousness. I can make choices in the moment about how I'm going to respond. And, you know, sometimes I can say, no, right, you know. I was going to swear there, but you know, I caught myself. So you can say no, right actually, no, you have triggered me and I'm going to go down this route. But that that's my choice, you know. or I can or I can decide actually, you have triggered me. I've been triggered by this situation. I've got more choice. I've got this whole spectrum of choices, of behaviours in which I'm going to choose from, and I'm going to choose to stay in best self right now.

Kay: I think that's a really good description, isn't it, about choice. It's making that unconscious, conscious and giving you the opportunity to really consider, what do I want to do at this point in time? You know, we're all adults. We can make those decisions for ourselves. And actually having that insight into what does best self look like? What does Shadow Behaviour look like? What's the impact that that has? It just gives us that opportunity to take a beat and, you know, and kind of make a decision. So you have shared a couple of your Shadow Behaviours with us. But I would love to know, you know, how would you describe your unconscious motivators, so your best self, what do they mean to you? And, what would you, you know, what would you say to others about and how would you describe those unconscious motivators that make you a leader, a founder of an agency, all the wonderful stuff that you bring to the world.

H: You know, I know that we had a conversation a while back, and you talked about this, the metaphors and what we do. And it came immediately to mind and I couldn't, you know, and I thought, right. No, nothing. This is it. This actually is a really nice metaphor for what I think about my unconscious motivators, because I actually genuinely really like them. I think, you know, and I think most people genuinely really like their unconscious motivators because you know, how could you not? I mean, you don't love yourself if you don't love your unconscious motivators. But I see them, almost like wild horses. That's what mine are like. That how I would see them. I love horses. And, you know, we've done some training with horses as well, which was an absolutely incredible treat. You know, but I see these motivators within me as strong and beautiful and driven and they can carry me far. I know they can carry me far. Further than I could probably even imagined, but only if I get hold of the reins. You know, because if I've not got hold of the reins….and if I lead them, I think they all come to the fore and I'm not saying that I'm unstoppable, but, you know. I think most people will know from me as a character, it's like once I got my teeth into something, like a horse, you know.

Kay: Once you get galloping

H: N', letting go, you know, it's like we're all going. Who’s keeping up. Come on, come on, come on. Like let's go. But I think when I don't, and, you know, and if I let them and the reins drop and I'm unconscious for a while and drop the reins. I think they start galloping, perhaps towards things that don't matter. Or, they can trample things in the way of getting there. And so, I think I don’t try to tame my unconscious motivators because they are who I am and they are my drivers and they are responsible for so many wonderful things that are happening in my life right now. And have happened and will happen. But I think it's about treating them with respect, and getting them into rhythm, you know, with just enough grip on them to, to keep me on track.

Kay: You know, how much I love, obviously from a horse perspective, all the leadership learnings that we can take from the power of the herd. I think that's a brilliant metaphor because it is about the fact, isn't it? You know, we've got this lovely push energy and pull energy from the from the herd. You know, they move at pace. They, you know, they've been around for millions of years and that's because they're great leaders aren't they, horses. So I love that metaphor. So thank you for sharing that with me.

I'm really interested around your aspirations for PRINT® for the future. I mean, we've done such a lot of wonderful work with PRINT® already. Where do you see it going to? And you know, if it is within the herd, where is it galloping towards? I thought I’d get that one in there.

H: Do you know, if that is wonderful, maybe I could stay with the metaphor for a little while.

It's a super tremendous question, and I'm glad that you've asked it, because sometimes you can just get into the cut and thrust of it, can’t you? And you’re not thinking, well, where am I actually going with this. And, and I think for me, as me as an individual, I don't really like this word holistic, but I see everything, as you know, everything has to be together. And I need to make sense of things, you know, if they if they're all going in one direction for a reason. And for PRINT®, why do I see PRINT®, why do I see PRINT® being in my life long term? You know, a longer term then now. It's not just the product, it's just not something that we do or something that we sell. For me, my vision for PRINT® is that it becomes the fabric of everyday life really. The way that it is for me, the way it is for a lot of, I'm sure when we meet some of the guests coming on the podcast, you'll see that once you're an advocate PRINT®, you're an advocate of PRINT® because it does change your life.

And I think I don't really want to see it be considered as another tool. Or a workshop, or a leadership program but a living, breathing part of culture, of people's day to day lives. Because I think PRINT® can help people feel seen. And, because, because it gets underneath it and people can understand. Especially for those that are maybe a little bit more introverted or, you know, we don't really, understand where they’re coming from. PRINT®'s a great language to help people get seen. And, and I think, it helps teams pre-empt friction. I think it's a wonderful methodology for bringing beautiful collaboration into the workspace. And, and I think at the core, I mean I've mentioned this, I think, hopefully it's common across I don't just see it as a profiling tool, it's a mirror, it’s a map, it’s a method, a methodology for awakening to your true self. it's one of those veils you can lift up. You know, if anybody's ever done any spiritual work or trying to understand who they are, it's all about trying to, you know, there's like lots of metaphors used like peeling onions and lifting veils and all those different metaphors. But this is just, I think PRINT® is a really important one for lifting a veil. Because it gets you beyond ego and beyond the conditioning, beyond what the world told you. You know, like before the world told you what they expected you to be, you get back to who you were.

And so that's my deeper aspiration, is that it helps people not just understand who they are, but remember who they've always been. Because the more that we live from our best self, the more we bring that energy into the world. And that's where real transformation happens in this world, needing a bit of transformation, really is.

Kay: Thank you so much. That's been really, really insightful. We've known each other for many years, haven't we? And we've kind of done that PRINT® journey together for, you know, for a long time. And I think it's it's great to go back to that origin. And where did it come from and why?

H: Yeah.

Kay : You know and the amazing things that we've already done and there’s such an opportunity to do so much more with it and wrap it into so many different elements of our lives, not only from a work perspective. And you're absolutely right. You know, we talk about it as a tool or profile, but I think that that piece around, it is so much more, is kind of the caption for it isn’t it? It's almost like, you know, you do a profile and that's the beginning of your journey. That's not the end of it. It's absolutely that gateway.

So thank you so much for indulging me and sharing your stories and sharing the origin and you know, your perspective on PRINT®. I have one last request from you H. So we're going to start a little playlist. So motivation is really important for all of us. We've all got these unconscious motivators and we all need motivating in some way shape or form whether that's intrinsic or extrinsic. So our playlist is called Now That’s What I Call My Why. And I'm going to invite everybody to share with me one song that is their go to for a motivational pick up. So which song will you contribute to our playlist and why?

H: Oh, I'm conflicted now because, because I have a song that I do go to but it’s quite political. I say, well, it is very political, but it has a real life story. I was doing the Great North Run and oh my God, nothing can prepare you for a marathon. I swear. Nothing can prepare you for anything, really. You know you do, but I thought, oh, you know, I've nailed a 10k, a half marathon will be fine. By God. It was a challenge. And about halfway through, I thought, I'm not going to be able to do this. And then this song came on my playlist and I put it on repeat all the way through, and it got me through and over the line in the Great North Run. And it was The Style Council and Walls come tumbling down. Yeah, so forget about the political stuff, you know, but it was just like, yeah!!! Let’s all go together! I kept looking at all the runners around me going, yeah, let's do it. Come on! And it got me over the line. So I'm going to add The Style Council into the motivational list.

Kay: Marvelous. Thank you so much. That will be that will be going on our list. And thanks again for sharing. It's been brilliant to talk to you, and I've loved every minute of it. And, as to another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years of PRINT® shaping and changing the world.